Watch the Full Conversation (12 min)
There is a point in every campus energy plan where the arithmetic stops cooperating. A campus with 120 buildings that upgrades two of them a year needs five decades to finish — which is a problem when the commitment on paper says 2030. James Rosner, PE, CEM, MBA, Principal Advisor for Higher Education (North America) at Johnson Controls, has watched that moment arrive from both chairs: first as the leader responsible for utilities and facilities at Oklahoma State University and the University of Denver, and now as the partner institutions call when the roadmap comes back priced higher than anyone planned for. He also holds the first business partner seat on the APPA Board of Directors. This conversation is about what higher education facilities planning looks like once the easy savings are spent.
→ The interim targets got hit with internal programs — revolving green funds, lighting retrofits, and building automation upgrades. Those levers are largely pulled.
→ What remains is capital-intensive and does not self-fund: heating decarbonization, steam-to-hot-water conversion, geothermal, and central plants that have been running 40 to 60 years.
→ Once savings no longer cover the cost, the request going to the board or the state lands in the $200 to $400 million range, and the conversation stops being about engineering.
→ Turnover at the president, CFO, and facilities leadership levels means many of the people accountable for 2030 goals are not the people who set them.
→ Student demand has not gone away — a meaningful share of incoming students still weigh an institution's sustainability record when deciding where to enroll.
→ On the partner side, James argues both directions need to change: institutions should bring problems earlier, and business partners should stay useful even when the solution is not theirs to sell.
Deciding what gets funded first
A 50-year list becomes manageable only when the sequence is defensible. Knowing which spaces are genuinely used, and how heavily, is what turns a backlog into an order of operations. Explore how institutions are using occupancy insights to prioritize capital work.
Aaron Benz: Welcome to another Bow Tie Tuesday. It is my privilege to be joined by James Rosner today. If you don't know James, James has been on the side of infrastructure for a long time — about 23-plus years, from the Air Force to Oklahoma State to the University of Denver. He's now at Johnson Controls and is on the APPA board. James, welcome to Bow Tie Tuesday.
James Rosner: I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Aaron Benz: One thing that is really important right now, especially given your expertise, is energy — the cost of energy. We've got data centers, but we also have all these 2030 plans, and it's getting pretty close to 2030. And 2040 is not too far away. From where you sit, how do you describe what's going on with institutions as these dates get closer?
James Rosner: There's so much happening in the world of energy, sustainability, and greenhouse gas emissions, and folks that made commitments are now trying to achieve those goals. Or even more so, their predecessors made commitments, and new staff — with a tremendous amount of turnover, both at the president, the CFO level, head of facilities, sustainability — there's quite a bit of turnover right now. Many people are inheriting goals and stepping into places they didn't even start. So there's a lot of activity happening here, a lot of pressure, when folks are trying to balance and manage a university's energy and sustainability goals. And you're right — 2030, we used to think, was a long way away. Now that we're approaching it, and we're in a new fiscal year for many universities, we only have two or three fiscal years until 2030 is here. That's really not a lot of time at all.
James Rosner: Right now I'm seeing a real emergence of how reality is meeting the aspirations of universities that have made commitments and goals in the past. And how much do the real key customers — those students — how much do students really care about this now as well? I've seen the survey that looked at students, and still 48% of incoming students are making decisions and prefer a campus that is on track with sustainability. That's a large constituent base. Including my daughter, who is going to be graduating and going into higher ed, and she cares about sustainability tracks, the environment, and environmental sciences. So there is quite a bit of interest from those key students asking, how are we doing? How are we on track?
James Rosner: What we've also looked at is that many universities have been handling a lot of items internally, or have been able to address a lot of low-hanging fruit, which was very achievable to meet those 2030 goals. So revolving green funds, internal lighting programs, doing building upgrades one at a time to come on track for interim goals like 40% or 50% by 2030 or 2040. However, if you have 100, 120 buildings on your campus, doing a building at a time, it's going to take a long time to do all your lighting retrofits or your building automation upgrades. The math doesn't work. If you do two a year, that's going to take 50 years if you've got 100 buildings.
James Rosner: So we're seeing a lot of progress towards goals. Many universities are meeting those interim goals. But now the hard work's getting started, with the low-hanging fruit picked and the internal programs in place. Now you're having large heating decarbonization conversions from steam to hot water, or use of geothermal. You were able to have very easy energy savings projects and contracts where those savings could pay and cover those costs, like those lighting projects. But when the costs can't be covered by savings, and universities are going to the state or to their board and saying, well, you've asked me to do a decarb plan, a roadmap, a utility master plan — now the cost of meeting this aspiration is in the two, three, four hundred million dollar range. It gets a little more challenging there.
James Rosner: So I'm seeing a lot of that, where there was a commitment made — hey, go and do a study, do a plan. Higher ed is amazing at doing plans and studies. Let's do another study. And as those questions were being asked — what's technically feasible? What's it cost? How long is it going to take? — I think some of that reality is meeting those aspirations.
James Rosner: Absolutely, including central utility plants and distribution systems that have been in place for 40, 50, 60-plus years now and are reaching a useful life. You're having to have that mix between building systems and utility systems. That energy transition is matching to say, do I want to invest and throw good money at an older system, older technology, as the grid is greening? There's been a lot of shift towards electrification and decarbonization. Being able to overcome some of that by replacing system types is capital intensive. You may be halfway through your low-hanging fruit now with that internal program, but there's still a large deferred maintenance backlog that has been well documented, and being able to start addressing those critical system enhancements and upgrades for new technology is really a challenge facing universities.
Aaron Benz: Let me switch the conversation a little bit. You're on the APPA board, responsible for business partners — business partners connecting at APPA, as well as how institutions connect to business partners. One of the things I'd love to pick your brain about is how we help do that better. For each party — I think in general they want to work better together — what are the things you would challenge or encourage institutions to do to take advantage of business partners in a good way? And the same for business partners: what can they do to help institutions more?
James Rosner: Having been on the institution side, attending multiple regional APPA conferences, state and even national conferences, I always came with a problem that I had. And I was always able to find a solution through a business partner, or learning from a presentation or a speaking point, to help leave with solutions in mind. That is a tremendous benefit. Business partners are so valuable at providing information about what's happening elsewhere in the country — problems other campuses have solved — and sharing that information with those campuses and attendees.
James Rosner: One thing that comes to mind is: universities, it's okay if you don't have all the answers. You may not have that problem now, but attending and listening and talking to business partners, planting seeds, hearing about it. I remember having a problem at my desk at Oklahoma State University where I was having a problem with steam tunnels and leaking and water infiltration. And this was six months after a conference. And I kid you not, on my table was one of the flyers from the tables of a solution that was there. And I looked down and smiled, and I had a solution right there.
James Rosner: So letting business partners know: those conversations may not have a call that next week. You might be able to plant those seeds, share those stories, and you're going to get a call six months later because you shared those innovations and technologies, and folks are there to learn and be open to talk. So institutions, don't be afraid of talking about your challenges and your needs. And business partners — even if it's not your solution, because of our network of business partners, we're here to solve a problem. Let me connect you with folks that might be able to solve that problem as part of that community.
James Rosner: I think that's a big part of my role on the board, because it's the first time APPA has had a business partner sit on the board — to really be that voice of business partners, understand the needs, and how best business partners can engage at the state, regional, and national chapter level. Because we're just here to help solve problems and be that resource for those universities, K-12, and community college customers.
James Rosner: I will give credit where credit is due. One of my first bosses in higher ed — he's still in higher ed at the University of Dayton, and was at Oklahoma State — had his rules of the road, one of which was: the customer has responsibilities too. To have a business partner be successful, you can't just call them up, put an RFP on the street, have them respond in one week, and expect business partners to jump through hoops to respond to an unreasonable timeline. The customer has those responsibilities as well, to help the business partner be successful. And in turn, that provides the best product and service to the university as well.
Aaron Benz: I love that — the customer has responsibilities too. Well, thank you so much. James, this has been a great Bow Tie Tuesday. Welcome back anytime, and certainly a pleasure having you on.
James Rosner: Appreciate it. And really excited to always help universities meet their mission. Again, with one of my own about to go into higher ed, I'm really excited to see that journey and help provide those solutions for those students in their future.